40 Comment(s)

1. On Sep 19, 2007, andrew said:

   having worked on a trading floor, it will be very hard to get into an official training program with that background unless you’ve got some other great skill (like being an athlete).

   if i were you, i would look to get a back office position but one that is sitting on the floor. this way you can see how things work.

   i’ve worked at some fo the top banks and have seen a good number of people work their way up from some back office position to a trader position. it’s hard work, competitive and might take a few years, but it can be done.

   the really tough part is that a lot of people are trying to do the same thing. most of them do not have what it takes. you may get to a point where you realize that you are one of them, which crushes alot of people.

2. On Sep 19, 2007, harvey said:

   be a varsity athelete, that usually helps. And be good. also, don’t play some pussy sport like fencing or tennis… that is the road to I-banking. Play varsity football or lacrosse.

3. On Sep 19, 2007, mrbubbs said:

   Do you know anybody in the business? If not, try getting a decent summer share in Hamptons — just make sure it is west of Hampton Bays. Try to meet as many traders as you can. Your grades/school aren’t impressive to get in the front door, but you may be able to sneak in the back by schlepping coffee to the real traders. Get their orders right and they may give you some capital to work with.

4. On Sep 19, 2007, mrbubbs said:

   “West of Hampton Bays” in above post should read “East of Hampton Bays.” Big difference — my bad.

5. On Sep 19, 2007, sweet said:

   oh yah - because lax is a real man’s sport. it may be chill, but its for pussies that can’t hit a curve ball.

6. On Sep 19, 2007, ArrestMeForBeingAwesome said:

   be hot and female, also helps… at least for getting into the program.

7. On Sep 19, 2007, Double T said:

   Trade/invest your own PA (no matter how small). If you show interest and are aggressive, you can overcome school and GPA. Also, trading desks differ widely these days, some love athletes who are aggressive and competitive, other more quantitative desks don’t want/need that at all

8. On Sep 19, 2007, Anonymous said:

   he said ‘not i-banking’

9. On Sep 19, 2007, T said:

   I did this, very easily. The most important thing is to have some talent that can help other traders. I studied higher level math in school, and could dabble in some programming. I got a job at a software company that helped manage risk for hedge funds, and worked with traders daily. This is the trick: to work at a hedge fund, or as a trader in general, don’t work for a bank. Work outside the arena, helping those that you would either A) like to work for or B) (more likely) would like to be. From this vantage point you can learn what you need to know, and network. Prove yourself to be invaluable, and a trader might take you out for drinks one day and offer you an apprenticeship on his desk.

   So far so good for me, good luck to you.

10. On Sep 19, 2007, A- said:

    Thank You Bankerball for posting my letter. I really appreciate your responses.

    I should have also added that I am triple majoring in Finance, Economics, and Mathematics. I have had 2 internships so far one at Merrill Lynch but as a Financial adviser, and another at TFS, in New York.

    I have a brokerage account and have invested, I just irritated when I can tell a stock is going to go up, but I can only by double digit shares. I really enjoy playing baseball it is my favorite sport, but I am not on a Varsity team. I have been thinking of playing club rugby too. I am learning to play tennis, maybe I-banking as a back up.

    I have already applied to the major banks in each region of the globe. I was thinking of emailing the few people I have for contacts even though I don’t know them very well and see what happens.

    I will keep in mind the back office job, I am just hoping to get the junior internship experience. Thank you very much guys. I appreciate your comments.

11. On Sep 19, 2007, Ruthless Gravity said:

    Get an MBA

12. On Sep 19, 2007, roastduck said:

    sweet -

    your comment could not be more perfect.

13. On Sep 19, 2007, badtrader said:

    Well if you have good math skills, you could apply to one of the training programs at an options or futures floor trading/market-making firms in Chicago. Those jobs are no longer the ticket to a prop desk at a big bank in NY the way they were in years past but could provide a solid education and first step into the business. A few years of solid experience managing risk for a derivatives book combined with a great grad school program and you could get a shot at one of the top tier funds or banks in a more quantitative group.

    If math isn’t your strength, and you are more interested in trading strategies that involve fundamental analysis and chutzpah (like merger arbitrage, shareholder activism, distressed situations, etc.) you will probably want to focus on opportunities working as a junior person in a research or investment banking group where you can learn about corporate finance how deals work etc. Many PMs who run these types of strategies at major hedge funds come from research, banking or even legal or accounting backgrounds that help them ply their craft.

    either way, for gods sake get an internship at a major bank, brokerage or fund for the summer before your senior year and get your GPA up. Expect to work very very hard to overcome the fact that you did not attend a “name” school when competing for jobs at major firms in the years to come and expect that –as opposed to how the media portrays the life of a trader, it is grueling work.

    Oh yeah, and as far as sports go, don’t get confused. 85% of the people sitting on trading floors at banks are sales people. Many of those sales people played sports and were in fraternities in college and make nice big salaries. Sometimes they will refer t themselves as “sales traders” or whatnot but those guys don’t actually make investment decisions or deploy capital. That is a completely valid career choice and if you want to go down that road just network with everyone in business that you can.

14. On Sep 19, 2007, parlay said:

    A-

    I think it depends on the state school. If you are talking Michigan, Virginia, Illinois, Wisconsin, Cal, and the like you will be fine, especially if you are a hard science or maths major.

    If not then you really need to be focused in your search. Exhaust your network of family, friends, and alumni. Then find someone you can crash with in NYC or Chi-town and just go at it. If all else fails work construction, get your hands on good grub stake then starts trading your own PA small. Many great traders have started exactly this way. Most locals who are multi-multi millionaires really don’t rate bank prop traders that highly, as they are scarcely ever risking their own capital. See Tommy Baldwin, Buzzy Schwartz, Richard Dennis, John Bender, Tom Basso, and the one and only Ira (CME) for examples as such.

    Don’t let Trader Daily or the GS mafia get you down. Go read Taleb’s Fooled by Randomness, much of what passes itself off as ‘risk taking’/ ‘hedgefund mangaging’ nowadays is nothing more than privileged brats at play- fools and their money…. it’s alwasy easier to get your hands on money if you or a bunch of people you know already have it. I mean come on, why do you think all those nearly upper middle class parents are trying like hell to get their kids into HYP to begin with, its so they wont be on the end that you’re on- they’ll already have the “in”. But remember, it not enough to have an “in”, eventually you have to have what it takes to stay there.

    If you have a dep passion for the markets, know probability theory and can make quick decisions-you are 85% of the way there. The rest is just sweat and money.

    Parlay

15. On Sep 19, 2007, Anonymous said:

    Go back to high school and study harder for the SAT this time.

16. On Sep 19, 2007, Notsweet said:

    sweet, who on your trading floor played baseball?
    Ugh what an awful feeling, lax is the way to go all the traders i know played lax.

17. On Sep 19, 2007, Bill said:

    Screw the big firms, form a corp, then do an app o rama and raise about 500k in funds on credit cards and lines of credit. Then open an account with Interactive brokers (low commissions, decent platform). Next only trade futures and options, but mostly futures. ES, NQ, YM and at night trade the HSI futures. Use all of your margin buying power which would allow you to trade 150-175 contract positions. If you get it right, you will smoke the income of most EMPLOYEES of the Wall Street firms and be well on your way to baller status (Ferrari, nice apartment, hookers, coke), if you get it wrong?… blame it on your state school education and start over. There you have it in a nutshell. Simple enough?

18. On Sep 20, 2007, seagull said:

    Salisbury LAX Rules!!!

19. On Sep 20, 2007, Somebody said:

    Can’t be serious -

    “I just irritated when I can tell a stock is going to go up, but I can only by double digit shares.”

    “I really enjoy playing baseball it is my favorite sport”

    “I have already applied to the major banks in each region of the globe.”

    “I was thinking of emailing the few people I have for contacts even though I don’t know them very well”

20. On Sep 20, 2007, JC said:

    What is it about being an athlete that is so attractive in recruiting traders? I don’t deny that you’re all right in that call. I have a friend who played Ivy football and he got a trading position right out of school. Ive just never understood why?

21. On Sep 20, 2007, Anonymous said:

    seagull, Hotchkiss dominated Salisbury in lax and hockey

22. On Sep 20, 2007, Hong Balls said:

    Don’t even try. You are a loser and you should sell douche door to door.

23. On Sep 20, 2007, A- said:

    I really appreciate the comments. I will try applying to back office positions as well. I have read Taleb’s Fooled By Randomness. I read all the time.

    Somebody, I am really serious. I am going to try my best to get into these firms as a trader or a back office position. Throughout my life I have never taken a No and always found some way to accomplish the mission.

    I am not smart by normal standards GPA or SATS, but in my brief time on Wall Street. I have noticed Ivy kids didn’t work as hard I as I did, because I felt luck to be there. In the end hard work pays off. As Jesse Livermore said “It cannot be said too often that in speculation and investment, success comes only to those you work for it.” There is no doubt in my mind I will be a top trader. There is however, negotiation on by what means I will get there.

24. On Sep 20, 2007, BH said:

    I’m going to go ahead and advise you to have somebody skilled copy edit and/or write up your resume/letters/emails/etc.

25. On Sep 21, 2007, A- said:

    lol.. Thank you, I know. I am working on it.

26. On Sep 21, 2007, cl4222a said:

    I am in similar position as the person above. I am a junior at American University with a 3.8 GPA. I have had an I Banking internship at a boutique (Freidman Billings Ramsey) and a back office internship at Lehman. I am having trouble getting an I banking internship for next summer or even an interview at any bulge bracket firm even with strong recommendations. Is there any advice you can offer? Or backdoors that you know of that I should explore? Thanks

27. On Sep 21, 2007, Hong Balls said:

    A, you sound like a real go getter. Please send me your resume - I run the index derivative desk at Goldman Sachs and you are just what we are looking for. Send it with a cover letter your measurements so i can get a janitor’s uniform with a name patch made for you. Talk soon!

    hongballs@gs.com

28. On Sep 24, 2007, seagull said:

    Anonymous,
    Salisbury ran the table in lacrosse last year. Undefeated season. No team scored more than 9 goals on them. Salisbury does not have an ice hockey team. Maybe you’re thinking about women’s field hockey…

29. On Sep 24, 2007, James Davis said:

    3.2 GPA at a state school, what were you doing the whole time. No decent bank will hire you with less than a 3.5 GPa minimum. I went to a B school graduated with 3.9 GPA and got a great job at lehman. My peers with 3.5 or less GPA is still on the cheese line.

30. On Sep 24, 2007, James Davis said:

    3.2 GPA at a state school, what were you doing the whole time? Partying and JK off? No decent bank will hire you with less than a 3.5 GPa minimum. I went to a B school graduated with 3.9 GPA and got a great job at lehman. My peers with 3.5 or less GPA is still on the cheese line.

31. On Sep 24, 2007, Anonymous said:

    excuse me seagull, i thought you meant salisbury prep school in ct not some shitty school in the middle of nowhere md

32. On Sep 25, 2007, Jerry Seinfeld said:

    What is going on with this seagull guy??? I mean, this rube has single handedly created the greatest subplot/diversion that I have ever seen!!
    Salisbury University!!! Whats up with that?? You have got to be kidding!!!!

    Seagull, the idiot savant, was even able to rope in some unsuspecting Hotchkiss WASP into an argument over Prep School athletics!!!! How embarrassing for the Hotchkiss alum!

    Seagull, that is rich!!…..Salisbury University!!

33. On Sep 25, 2007, I actually have a job said:

    Never going to happen… study your ass off for the GMAT, don’t screw it up like you did the SAT and get an MBA from a top B-school.

34. On Sep 26, 2007, seagull said:

    I’m out there Jerry, and I’m lovin’ it!

35. On Oct 27, 2007, andrew said:

    trading shops love lacrosse players?

36. On Oct 29, 2007, David said:

    lax is for rich white boys who are too slow/small (dicked) to play football.

37. On Oct 30, 2007, Bee said:

    Hong balls is an idiot, a fool, for belittling a man’s ambition without any constructive criticism

38. On Jan 5, 2008, iluvol said:

    Lol,
    Is this website the community for you American khaki and button-down wearing frat clowns that now sit on some NYC stock trading or sales desks and think you are better than the rest of the world because you went to some ivy unis across the country? How poor. Its a pity that all it takes in your culture to define a “successful” human being in finance as someone with some university name in their pockets, a stinking and totally inflated ego, participation in some sports team (if you had something real to offer sports-wise then you would not hit small balls with sticks and play football with helmets and protectors like pussies but play rugby as real men do), CNN/CNBC on your trading desk to equalize the level of sophistication, and smoking cigars at his/her alumni clubs in the city. Making good money is one thing, lacking pretty much all other non-material values of life an entirely other. Congratulate yourself, at least you found each other.

39. On Apr 8, 2008, G Money said:

    Hong Balls wishes he had a job at Goldman. Instead he probably licks ass for a living.

40. On Jun 23, 2008, H said:

    iluvol,

    Although I am an American, I could not agree with you more.

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