Ask BBallers: Ivy League & Banking - the Eternal Debate
By BankersBall on Dec 2, 2008 in Ask BBallers, Internships, Interviewing
An undergrad debates whether it’s worth the $ and effort to transfer to UPenn.
Economics program @ UPenn vs. local school with BA in Math ….
My name is ______ and I really need advice from someone in the finance/banking world on how large an impact the reputation of an individual’s undergraduate school has in the recruiting process. My particular dilemma is that I worked hard to transfer into the economics program at Penn, but wouldn’t a BS in mathematics form a local college be just as impressive. Penn is so expensive and I might get into banking and realize I can’t take the pressure and long hours. Will rejecting UPenn be the biggest mistake of my life?
Calling all people involved in hiring, what role does an Ivy League education play in the selection process?
On Dec 2, 2008, Big Baller said:
1. If you even have to ask yourself that question then you belong to the gas station.
On Dec 2, 2008, Big Baller said:
2. Wait, when did UPenn become part of the Ivy League?
On Dec 2, 2008, Confused said:
So you go to UPenn, want to be in IB, and aren’t in Wharton? Good luck man…
On Dec 2, 2008, Sr. Excel Monkey said:
Go to UPenn, without a doubt.
On Dec 2, 2008, Random said:
Your undergraduate school makes a big difference in opening doors for you in the industry you want to enter. There are always exceptions, but you should go to UPenn compared to some local college (assuming the latter is not a top ranked school).
On Dec 2, 2008, yale grad, hedge funder said:
“but wouldn’t a BS in mathematics form a local college be just as impressive”
no, it wouldn’t. while math majors from your school may very well be smarter/harder working than history majors at penn, there’s no way someone reading your resume is going to know that. if your school doesn’t have a “brand” then people will assume it’s dodgy. and god help you if you don’t have a 4.0, since the assumption is that since the ivy league has shockingly high grade inflation, if you can’t get a 4.0 at a “lesser school” then you’re certifiably brain-dead.
hate to say it though, you will likely have a mild stigma on your resume being a transfer. barack obama and columbia aside, most ivy leaguers cringe at people who have to sneak in through the back door.
also keep in mind that Penn will provide more than just a stamp of approval. it’s a school that not only catches the attention of recruiters, but also has a good institutional process for recruiting. think of it as being a liquid marketplace wherein buyers (firms) and sellers (talent) can meet-up fairly seamlessly. in comparison, your local school will be more like a swapmeet, wherein there may be hidden gems but few buyers are going to waste a ton of time searching for it.
Penn will also provide a fantastic alumni network and likely a much richer extra-curricular life than whatever school you’re attending now.
“Penn is so expensive and I might get into banking and realize I can’t take the pressure and long hours. Will rejecting UPenn be the biggest mistake of my life?
not the biggest mistake of your life, but it would be a mistake. the incremental $50-100k extra to matriculate there for 2 or 3 yrs is a lot at once, but not a ton over the course of your life. you could pay that back w/in two years of banking and still live pretty comfortably (albeit miserably, since you’ll be a banker).
superficially, it’s hard for people outside of the ivy league/finance to understand. penn is not an “elite” ivy (unless you go to wharton, in which case you’re seen as a well-trained monkey) and you’re going to have further issues being a transfer student. you’ll also likely work longer hours and pay more money to do it. but this culture is so insular, and the lifetime benefits are so great, that while you may get to the same place w/ an extra 2-5 years of hard work (proving yourselft at a firm, working your way up the ladder, etc.) it’s a gamble and frankly you would have paid the extra tuition and then some in that time period.
On Dec 2, 2008, What What said:
Is this a joke? Are you serious? You will look back some day while spending your stimulus check and waiting in line at Wal-Mart wishing you had transfered.
On Dec 2, 2008, Jon F said:
It’s time to stop believing all the propaganda you hear in your smaller college. is great! Isn’t it funny how you rarely hear, “That college isn’t so great….”. You’ll hear argument after argument why XYZ college is good. “you’ll learn the same material” is probably the most convincing because it is true.
However, It is absolutely worth it to transfer to a college with a better brand name as your recruitment options will be MUCH better. You have to go where the jobs are. You can spend your senior year marketing your ass off trying to convince the world you and your degree are as good as the other guys, and you’ll have a 10% shot of landing a great job; Or you can go to a school with the right name and have a much greater shot of landing that job. It’s a lot easier paying off college loans when you’re making money.
On the intangible side, you’ll be surrounded by a higher grade of classmate, who will be more ambitious and worldly, which will enhance you as a person as you interact with them.
On Dec 2, 2008, JKR said:
Even if you don’t go into banking, a degree from UPenn is infinitely more valuable than a math degree from a local school. Although asking the question makes me wonder if you could actually get accepted into such a reputable University? Take it from someone who has been in the real world for a few years, whether merited or not, you cannot put a price tag on the prestige associated with a University’s “name”. Even if you are a thoroughly legitimate dumbass, you can ride that name/degree all the way to the bank (trust me, have seen way too many people do it).
On Dec 2, 2008, melo said:
People like to say it doesn’t matter where you go but what you got out of it, which for the most part is bs, and probably came from an alumni of some really small school in the NE. The school’s prestige and reputation plays a big part, from opening doors to the alumni network, and this will benefit you for the rest of your life. Ivy does have cache (yes, I am an alumni), but I’d say you’re good if you at least get a degree from one of the top-30 universities, which of course include some very reputable state schools. After that tier, it drops off dramatically.
On Dec 2, 2008, Anonymous said:
listen to your heart. follow your bliss. chase your dreams. you should really start worrying if you’ve stopped doing that.
is penn worth the money? that depends on what you make of it.
On Dec 2, 2008, anon said:
listen to your heart. follow your bliss. chase your dreams. you should really start worrying if you’ve stopped doing that.
is penn worth the money? that depends on what you make of it.
On Dec 3, 2008, gmoney said:
with that kind of attitude maybe you’d be better off at your local college. maybe you’re the type of person who’d be happy working in the same company for 20 years. nothing wrong with that, but a penn degree would be a waste on you.
an ivy league degree opens many doors if you know where/how to knock.
On Dec 3, 2008, quant1729 said:
If you would like to become a quant, where you receive your undergrad is not so much of an issue here. Rather where you receive your graduate degree from is what matters.
On Dec 3, 2008, Indiana University said:
Having gotten into the industry from a non-Ivy league first let me tell you that its not impossible. Moreover, I noticed that those that did make it seemed to do relatively better than their ivy league counterparts. This being said, IU does not have a college club in New York and does not have the alumni base that UPen would have.
Unless your alternative is a school where you can party 4 nights a week and still get a 4.0 (like IU), then the sacrifices of UPen will be worth it.
On Dec 3, 2008, TC said:
what a joke………..”I might get into banking and realize I can’t take the pressure and long hours.” FYI if you are already bitching about the hours and questioning your conviction for the industry, then banking is not for you so don’t waste your money on Penn. Go to your local school and work in audit or a management training program at some bull shit firm…………..
On Dec 3, 2008, KLS said:
I went to a small regional school for under grad, and then went to a school with a stronger name for my MBA. I will tell you that the school name does help. But that is only true if you are able to use the name properly. During, undergrad I worked out internships with what are no the former big firms, on the street and I had no shortage of offer after graduation. A lot comes down to who you are. I was a alittle concerned about being able to deal with the hours, and stress but I through all that I knew that this is what I wanted to do. I am not telling you that you shouldn’t be a banker becasue you have some reservations.
I just want to make sure that you are no looking and “Wall Street” and “Bolier Room” and think that is what this life is like. The hours do suck, the stress is insane sometimes but I dig this shit. Before I give you my advice I want to know the local school your talking about. If the local school is “Bob’s University and Buffalo wings” go to Penn, if the local school is Ohio State thats different. Also, check with your current school’s Alumni assoc. see who is who I went to a small school but a good number of our Alum are Bankers, Hedge Fund Managers.
On Dec 3, 2008, undergrad said:
What do you guys think about Fordham University…for a career in Ibanking
On Dec 4, 2008, back said:
are you joking? fordham is good if you want to be in the back office: risk management, operations, maybe even research…from there you can claw your way into the front office. my experience with fordham grads is that they aren’t too sharp.
On Dec 4, 2008, Anonymous said:
Fordham is a great school for ibanking….back office.
On Dec 4, 2008, johnson said:
What about University of Toronto?
On Dec 4, 2008, RPB said:
I do hope you are joking. The answer is so obvious its ridiculous. Go to UPENN and take economics. Enroll into as many quantitative and finance related courses that you can handle. Is it hard work? Of course. Is it worth it? Unquestionably. Will you party 5 nights a week? Negative. Will you nail 9s and 10? Nope. However, you will open doors that you never knew existed. The alumni network is massive, diverse and willing to hire. On top of that the snob appeal (relative) has its benefits and UPENN’s recruiting program is sound.
Besides, its not like you’ll be doing work 24/7. I went the University of Chicago and still found time to do whatever I wanted at that nerd factory.
Do not be a pussy and question the work load at Penn. I can assure you that banking is exponentially more stressful.
GO TO PENN! You will not regret it.
On Dec 4, 2008, Anonymous said:
Fordham’s a great school for banking. Fordham has a lot of Alumni on the street
On Dec 5, 2008, Anus said:
Ivy definately helps, but it is funny a lot of the most successful people I know in Ibanking went to non-Ivy schools.
A lot of dorks from Ivy league that get in the door, but can’t really make it in Ibanking.
On Dec 5, 2008, Anonymous said:
Fordham’s definitely on the way up — smart kids recently.
On Dec 7, 2008, Young&Dumb said:
How much weight will USC(Marshall) or UCLA(Anderson) hold?
On Dec 9, 2008, Please said:
Won’t hold up at all
On Dec 12, 2008, Young&Dumb said:
What I thought……
Thank you
On Jan 22, 2009, pokemon said:
go to Penn instead of dooche schools like Duke or Stanford